Smokers = Litter Bugs

In Barcelona, there was an actual sign on the beach saying: "The beach is not a ashtray!". This was accompanied by a little girl in a photo playing in the sand with a cigarette in her mouth. Hmmm. Fun times at the beach. I definitively think that we should do something about the littering. Like stop producing cigarettes ;) Haha. Maybe there's another way to solve this, but yeah agreed.

First as a kid i got a $200 litter ticket for throwing a butt on the ground.WHen i got older this pissed me off, i got pulled over by a police officer. He said he smelled pot (i dont smoke) so he searched me and found smoked cig butts in my pocket. he asked me why. I explained when i am walking arround outside i dont throw my butts on the ground. He looked me in the eye and tossed them in the bushes and let me go.
Had i been older and wiser I would have complained, i was just glad to not be harrasssed anymore.

My favorite part of the campaign: Keep Yer Butts In The Car!

I think the fear of trash fires are a big reason why people don't just toss them into garbage cans. Having separate receptacles with sand or some other dirt material near trashcans or smokers' corners is the only way to have an excuse to call out those who are littering. And they should be called out.

And in fairness, this headline should read: Thoughtless People = Litter Bugs. I've seen way more dirty diapers, busted tires, half-eaten Big Macs and higher offenses than cigarette ash on my parking lots and street corners. Crusading against one type of litter makes no sense; it's everyone, smoker, non-smoker, Big Mac lovers, parents who don't plan on their babies' bowel movements, etc. etc. etc.

In Italy, a country where everyone smoked and tossed their butts like parade trinkets, street cleaner trucks with two men toting high-pressure water hoses would clean the every street every night without fail. I saw fewer butts in the morning, of course, and more at night, especially because I lived over a bar. It was loud, annoying (2:30 a.m. on the dot) and probably cost a lot, but it got the job done.

That or praying for rain every day.

I live in Texas, and I see people throw their cigarettes out of the car window all the time. I'm tempted to honk, but I try not to honk at people as punishment. It does no good, and it can actually put you in danger by distracting someone or just pissing them off. Still, I hate it when people do that. It's incredibly arrogant, IMO.

Two fellow Texans in the same thread :) This sounds like group therapy now but Hi my name is Kyle and I live in Texas. About 3/4 of a mile from my home there was a large grass fire last year started from a cigarette or at least that's what the local news said the police suspected. Every year on the highway between Dallas and Fort Worth you can see burnt ground from those little and big fires.

Fortunately as the number of smokers continues to decline the side-effect problems will too.

I actually threw a still-lit cigarette back into a car window one day, with the comment, "I think you dropped this."

I was accused of assault...go figure. Nothing came of it, of course.

I have to agree that this is not the right answer either Jimmy. I am glad nothing came of it for your sake tho.

I'm just saying that your statement that all smokers are litter bugs is a little bigoted. Items attributed to smokers on every street corner does not mean all smokers litter.

Well that would be asking if all smokers are litter bugs. I don't mean to be an ass about it, and I'm sorry to get on your case. It's just a touchy subject for me. Can you tell? How about "Should smokers be allowed to litter?"

Now if you'll excuse me, I need a smoke ;)

I'm just saying that your statement that all smokers are litter bugs is a little bigoted. Items attributed to smokers on every street corner does not mean all smokers litter.

Seconded. I'm actually quite aware of other smokers littering, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a smoker as careful as I am in terms of smoking ettiquette.

but you'd be hard-pressed to find a smoker as careful as I am in terms of smoking etiquette.

I found one! When I finish a smoke, I roll the cherry and excess tobacco out of the end and put the butt in my pocket. (getting the extra tobacco out keeps the smell down)

I used to have a bumper sticker that read: The earth is not your ashtray, keep your butt in the car. Apparently it didn't help.

I think cigarette litter fits into the category of 'too small to worry about' for a lot of people. It is only when you see the extent to which cigarette garbage can be found everywhere that people realize it is, like all other litter, additive.

Ditto spacegoat my feelings exactly. I know one thing , I smoke yes i've littered and I have on my own accord picked up thousands of butts. Beer cans and bottles and fast food wrapppers is much more of a problem. Except for a lit cig thats burns grasslands and forests, thats not good, in fact it is arson, a felony.

Smokers = Polluters

Its hard to keep all of the ash from escaping isn't it? How about the toxic fumes and particulates in the smoke, isn't that a form of littering?

It seems to me there can be a fine line between littering and polluting. Anyone who smokes in public is clearly polluting the air, even if they assiduously keep their ash to themselves. Would Smokers = Polluters be better?

Car drivers = Polluters is far more appropriate. The amount of pollution from cars far exceeds that produced by smokers.

Car drivers = Polluters is far more appropriate. The amount of pollution from cars far exceeds that produced by smokers.

So what? We are talking about smokers not cars and the fact that cars cause pollution doesnt mean that nothing else does.

Furthermore, there is a lot of regulation on how much cars can pollute, the kind of gasoline, engine requirements, that tobacco isnt subject to.

Finally, tobbaco smoke contains a lot more carcinogens than automobile exhaust.

If smokers really cared about themselves, the environment, and those around them, they'd stop smoking. But they don't.

I'm really feeling the hate here people! I'm feeling the hate!

If smokers really cared about themselves, the environment, and those around them, they'd stop smoking. But they don't.

If smoking wasnt so extremely addictive I might be more inclined to believe you. The fact is that most people are addicted to smoking as kids before its even legal for them to smoke. Many care about themselves, and want to stop, but find themselves unable to do so.

Hmmm, really? My dad started at 15, and continued to smoke until he was in his 30s. He's been clean for 20 years. Those who really want to can stop. Those who don't, can't. Look at crack; smoking isn't as bad as that, yet hundreds of former crack smokers have cleaned up their acts.

I'm just saying that if you're going to complain about smokers because they pollute, then you better be sure that you're not doing something which pollutes more. It's hypocritical.

The carcinogenic point is better. Maybe "pollution" is just far too general of a term to be using here.

Hmmm, really? My dad started at 15, and continued to smoke until he was in his 30s. He's been clean for 20 years. Those who really want to can stop.

Yes, really. Believe it or not your dad isnt the model for all addiction by which everyone else is measured. Some people are more subject to addiction than others and some more succeptible to nicotine addiction than others.

Among the 44 million Americans who smoke, about 70 percent would like to quit and 40 percent really try. But in a given year, fewer than 5 percent of would-be quitters actually succeed, a National Institutes of Health panel said last week.

The fact that some succeed does not mean the rest dont really want to or that they are all lying. Are you sure crack cocain is more addictive than smoking? The mechanisms are similar and it depends on individual physisilogy.

Cocaine is less addictive than nicotine or some other drugs, says Dr. Bankole Johnson. But because of the extreme high it provides, Johnson said, it's often harder to give up.

Sorry for the blow up folks. I had to leave so I went for the George Castanza thing. Reading it now, it looks like a mental break down. Damn the lack of sarcasm tag!

Catch22, I see from your profile you are a Public Health Analyst, so you must know what you're talking about.

Finally, tobbaco smoke contains a lot more carcinogens than automobile exhaust.

Do you mean that cigarette smoke contains more carcinigens by volume or more individual types of carcinigens?

Do you mean that cigarette smoke contains more carcinigens by volume or more individual types of carcinigens?

Both. A lot more.

It is worth noting that Diesel exhaust tends to be a lot more toxic that exhaust from other automobiles. But tobacco smoke has both more carcinogens and more of those carcinogens.

For example, cne carcinogen they share is benzene. Benzene is probably the most dangerous carcinogen in both, but tobacco smoke has dozens more. Even though cars put out a lot more volume, tobacco is the number one cause of benzene exposure, roughly equal to all other sources added together. See: http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/eleventh/profiles/s019benz.pdf

Car exhaust certainly isnt healthy, but it is far more regulated than tobacco and the economic consequences of eliminating car exhaust would be at a LOT higher cost with a lot more unintended consequences.

Alright so according to that profile:

U.S. locations at concentrations ranging from 0.02
ppb (0.06 μg/m3) (in a rural area) to 112 ppb (356 μg/m3) (in an urban
area). Exposure to benzene is highest in areas of heavy motor vehicle
traffic and around gasoline filling stations. Based on an average benzene
concentration of 12.5 ppb (40 μg/m3) in the air and an exposure of 1
hour per day, daily benzene intake from driving or riding in a motor
vehicle is estimated to be 40 μg. Exposure is greater among people who
spend significant time in motor vehicles in areas of congested traffic.

So that's on average 12.5 ppb up to 112ppb for rush hour traffic in a big city.

The median level of benzene was 2.2 ppb (7 μg/m3) in 185 homes without smokers and 3.3 ppb (10.5μg/m3) in 343 homes with one or more smokers.

That's a difference of 1.1ppb between smokers homes vs. non-smokers homes. I was kind of confused at first about the statement that half of the national exposure was due to cigarette smoke. I think that is because of the extended exposure in the home as opposed to a 1 hour commute. I still wonder where that 2.2ppb is coming from. Maybe they had a window open.

At any rate we are talking about outdoor exposure. So what part of that 1.1ppb is affecting non-smokers in the open air? But as you say, every little bit counts right?

Benzene has been detected in fruits, vegetables, nuts, dairy products, eggs, and fish.
In a 1992 survey of more than 50 foods, benzene concentrations in
foods containing both benzoate and ascorbate food additives ranged
from less than 1 to 38 ppb (< 3 to 120 μg/m3) (ATSDR, 1997).

There's a good little bit to be concerned about.

Catch22,

Do you care to respond my analysis above?

Do you care to respond my analysis above?

Since you asked, my response is primarily that the data doesn't permit distinguishing so neatly between outdoor and indoor exposure. While dilution certain makes a tremendous difference, there is no safe level of exposure to tobacco smoke, and it doenst just dissappear. The data does offer one clear conclusion: Of all the preventable causes of death, smoking is by far the biggest.

I agree there is a lot to be potentially concerned with, and that there are a lot of potential dangers. The fact is that there are lots of dangers out there some that we can do something about and some we cant, some where the "cure" for the problem would be more costly than the problem itself.

Smoking, however, warrants a greater amount of attention. Why? Because we have evidence showing its disproportionate impact. We have known for decades that tobacco is by far the biggest preventable cause of death among smokers.

Tobacco use is the leading preventable cause of death in the United States.1 Cigarette smoking causes an estimated 440,000 deaths, or about 1 of every 5 deaths, each year.2,3 This estimate includes 35,000 deaths from secondhand smoke exposure.2

Cigarette smoking kills an estimated 264,000 men and 178,000 women in the United States each year.2

More deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined.2,4

On average, adults who smoke cigarettes die 13–14 years earlier than nonsmokers.2

Based on current cigarette smoking patterns, an estimated 25 million Americans who are alive today will die prematurely from smoking-related illnesses, including 5 million people younger than 18.5

In its recently released report the Surgeon General reports even higher estimates of deaths to non-smokers: Second Hand Smoke Kills Tens of Thousands of Non-Smokers every year: Estimates indicate that a lot more non-smokers die from tobacco smoke every month than died from the terrorist attacks on 9/11.

It makes sense to focus on something that is the single biggest preventable cause of death, but also kills tens of thousands of non-smokers and results in hundreds of thousands of hospitalizations annually. Furthermore, the solutions are not nearly as expensive as finding a cure for AIDs, not even close, and anti-tobacco measures come no where close as expesnive in either resources or civil freedom as have been expended in the so called war on terror. Tobacco kills more Americans every week than terrorism has killed Americans in out entire nations history. More non-smoking Americans are killed by tobacco every month than have been killed terrorists through out our nations history.

If someone would like to point out a bigger problem feel free.

Yes, and if you ran your car indoors you will probably be killed much more quickly. The point is that outdoors the air is diluted quickly enough that engine fumes do not harm us. Certainly smoke, which will kill you in maybe 40 years of constant exposure in a poorly ventilated environment, is probably pretty safe when you're outside.

Certainly smoke, which will kill you in maybe 40 years of constant exposure in a poorly ventilated environment, is probably pretty safe when you're outside.

Given the fact that there is no safe level of exposure to tobacco smoke, what exactly do you mean by pretty safe?

Also unfortunately, it doesnt necessarily take 40 years of tobacco smoke to kill anyone, in fact it usually takes a LOT less and although the chances are very very small, even a moments exposure can kill - hence the no safe level of exposure.

Of course if you make up figures you might feel better about the risk.

I mean pretty safe compared to inhaling car exhaust by volume and output, ambient space being equal, which was your position to begin with. #5.17

Catch22, I see from your profile you are a Public Health Analyst, so you must know what you're talking about.

Finally, tobbaco smoke contains a lot more carcinogens than automobile exhaust.

Do you mean that cigarette smoke contains more carcinigens by volume or more individual types of carcinigens?

To which you responded: #5.19

Both. A lot more.

I mean pretty safe compared to inhaling car exhaust by volume and output, ambient space being equal, which was your position to begin with.

Newsflash: Its a bad idea to run a car in an enclosed space, due to asphyxiation. Its also a bad idea to fill a room up with water, but this doesnt mean that water is more toxic than automobile exhaust or tobacco smoke.

Tobacco smoke does containa lot more carcinogens than car exhaust and more by volume. So what is you point of quoting it again in this context. Are you disagreeing?

If you read that benzine profile it clearly shows that you are wrong. I disagree with you, science disagrees with you, and common sense disagrees with you.

If you read that benzine profile it clearly shows that you are wrong. I disagree with you, science disagrees with you, and common sense disagrees with you. .

Wrong about what? I dont read minds.

I agree, this article could just as easily read Gum Chewers = Litter bugs. In many cases that is true, but the number of butts visible on the streets exceeds gum more than 100 to 1. Why is it so difficult to throw them away properly?

Yes but the number of cigarette butts under my seat, handrails, bathroom stalls, libraries and park bench is 1:10000 when you compare it to chewing gum. Of course, this second hand gum often times has some flavor to it... where as a secondhand cigarette butt is... flavorless :(

tell them their gas line seems to be leaking.

I've even thought about returning the cigarette butt to the user, but it would be hard to figure out which of the 12921 was his/hers

I think this would be a good area for a public service campaign. Like others in this thread, I think littering is bad in general, and has gotten worse in recent years. I live in the Twin Cities and it's a down right shame seeing all the trash on the side of the roads in the spring time after the snow melts. That's not to mention the inconsiderate neighbor above me in my apartment building who throws his butts off of his balcony, littering the lawn right outside my back door.

As a smoker, I can tell you that the PSAs have altered my behavior in public. I think they are a lot of scare tactics BS, but they make me aware that people don't like smoking. I am more conscious about who's around me when I smoke and try to stay out of peoples way.

I believe a similar campaign will help people to be more conscientious about littering. Cigarette butts are a problem and focus should be given to that type of littering too, but focusing only on butts (heh that doesn't sound right :b) will send the message that throwing your empty water bottle out the window is alright.

I'm with you on the PSA, but can anything top The Crying Indian? I think the biggest problem with our culture today is making PSAs that aren't lampoonable - a stretch of a word, I know. The More You Know jokes on Conan, the goofy Verb: It's what you do! for obese kids, etc., they all become easy fodder for the Snark Generation. The only ones that have worked recently in my eyes are the Truth campaign, but even then get some eye-rolling aciton.

So, what if we beat the to the punch: we make a parody of the Bravia ad, only instead of bouncing balls, we have cigarette butts, soundtrack by Sufjan or someone as indie-cred-garnering, slo-mo bullet-time, whatever. Sounds good?

(Hey, I live in the Twin Cities, too!)

I'm a smoker, just bought a new Nissan Frontier and it had no ash tray. In fact all their Nissan's had no ashtray, I can't help but toss them out the window while I'm driving. Otherwise when I'm at work I put them in the ashtray, and at clubs or bars I put them in ashtrays.

PS. I'm sure cigarette butts account for a very small percentage of litter, so quit whining. I don't stop you from doing anything that's legal no matter how much it annoys me. It's clear everyone just discriminates against smokers, that's fine though, I don't blame you though it's a bad habit.

That's a stupid excuse. You can get or make an ashtray. You can also make sure that one is installed when you buy a car. There's no excuse for throwing them out the window.

I'm a smoker, just bought a new Nissan Frontier and it had no ash tray. In fact all their Nissan's had no ashtray, I can't help but toss them out the window while I'm driving.

That is a piss-poor excuse. It would be far safer to keep a soda can with a half inch of water in the bottle holder we all know is there and stick the finished cigarette there. Change out the can from time to time. I also believe (could be wrong here) that most new cars have the smokers package as an option. The fact that you chose not to get it does not give you an excuse to litter.

Sigh. Is it really that difficult to fill a soda can or water bottle half-full with water and stick it in the car? FYI, I also have no ashtray in my car but that doesn't mean I'm going to toss butts out the window.

Nissan Frontier Smokers Package - $15.

That is a piss-poor excuse. It would be far safer to keep a soda can with a half inch of water in the bottle holder we all know is there and stick the finished cigarette there. Change out the can from time to time. I also believe (could be wrong here) that most new cars have the smokers package as an option. The fact that you chose not to get it does not give you an excuse to litter.

I wasn't aware new cars had "smokers packages" I just assumed they hate us smokers like yourself. I seriously doubt you've never littered, treating me like I'm some sort of plague on society just makes you seem completely irrational.

Calm down a bit, nobody here thinks you're wrong and I'm certainly not in the right for tossing my butts out the window. I tried the can thing, but it makes my car look disgusting, plus I don't like leaving things in my cup holders. I put my phone and ipod in there, as well as other random stuff so I don't like them filled. Also I only have two cup holders, so I can't really have one filled when others are riding with me and we have drinks in the car.

I'm a smoker, just bought a new Nissan Frontier and it had no ash tray. In fact all their Nissan's had no ashtray, I can't help but toss them out the window while I'm driving. Otherwise when I'm at work I put them in the ashtray, and at clubs or bars I put them in ashtrays.

Poor excuse. When you're done eating, can you wait to throw your McDonald's bag out, or does it follow the cigarette?

Well, hate to break the news to you, but if you live in Pennsylvania (I'm in DE but it's right there) "not being able to help yourself" will cost you $900. See PA Vehicle Code, Title 75, Chapter 37:

(a) General rule.--No person shall throw or deposit, upon any highway or upon any other public or private property without the consent of the owner thereof or into or on the waters of this Commonwealth, from a vehicle, any waste paper, sweepings, ashes, household waste, glass, metal, refuse or rubbish, or any dangerous or detrimental substance. Penalty:

(d) Penalty.--Any person violating any of the provisions of subsection (a) or (b) commits a summary offense and shall, upon conviction, be sentenced to either or both of the following: (1) To pay a fine of not more than:
(i) $900 for a violation which occurs in an easement purchased under the program established by section 14.1 of the act of June 30, 1981 (P.L. 128, No. 43), known as the Agricultural Area Security Law;

So, no, it's not legal. It is a crime which is, and will be, prosecuted. And to make matters worse, most cigarette filters are made of the same material as camera film (cellulose acetate) and are *not* biodegradable. At all.

I tried the can thing, but it makes my car look disgusting

Oh I'm sorry for YOU being subject to the same filth our roads are, how ridiculous of us all.

So, what if we beat the to the punch: we make a parody of the Bravia ad, only instead of bouncing balls, we have cigarette butts, soundtrack by Sufjan or someone as indie-cred-garnering, slo-mo bullet-time, whatever. Sounds good?

Make em angry commando butts, terrorizing a puppy and I think you've got something.

I was just at Checker Auto a week ago, and they had ashtrays for your dash. I'm sure Pep Boys has the same item.

I wasn't aware new cars had "smokers packages" I just assumed they hate us smokers like yourself. I seriously doubt you've never littered, treating me like I'm some sort of plague on society just makes you seem completely irrational.

I don't agree that you have been treated like some sort of plague on society. Instead your attempt at making an excuse for throwing your cigarette butts out the window has been treated appropriately. It is a stupid line of reasoning. 'My car doesn't have an ashtray and I don't like having an empty bottle in my car cause it looks bad...' etc. just doesn't cut it. I for one do not hate smokers, I used to be one and I know how tough it is to quit when you WANT to quit. If you don't want to you never will. I was (and still am) against cities making it a law that you can't smoke in a bar. I enjoy time in a bar without smoke but I don't think it is the right place for the government to interfere either. You claim to recognize you are wrong for throwing the butts out the window, now the question is, will you do anything about it?

Yeah, back when I smoked myself I used to drive to work with a buddy of mine. We both smoked, he tossed his butts out the window and I put mine in the ashtray. He would get pissed off at me for doing that and tell me it was an ASH tray not a BUTT tray. LOL what a loser

Append:

Nobody seemed to mention condoms. To quote David Cross: "Surely they're not [ahem]'ing in the street?"

Perhaps it's just a problem in the cities I frequent (I promise it's not a habit *I* have), but I've seen used condoms in the middle of the street, on sidewalks, and even stuck to store windows in the following:
Seattle,
Boston,
NYC,
Youngstown,
Miami,
Tampa,
Fort Myers

Sheesh. Cigarette butts are one thing, dirty diapers another, but used condoms? I'm not even gonna comment on a squirrel picking that up, or even a bird using it as a nest! - Wait, I guess I just did.

Yeah that really pisses me off. Going to remote camp site and finding stuff like that. A city street is one thing, but come on.

A little. But then, cigarette butts don't usually puncture your foot and expose you to various diseases when you step on them.

Why not put the butts in a trash can? Or in the needle repository?

no they don't, but surely the sheer number of smokers in the town warrents some kind of a system.

then again, the sooner smoking is banned altogether, the better.

nice response Shawn Gordon.

like me "damn that's like, two pack s of cigs because I littered...piss!"

damn... you pay $5 a pack. I guess there is some benefit for living in tobacco country... we still pay about $2 (with coupons).

@ Shawn Gordon: Maybe my comment was being a bit harsh and maybe not all smokers are inconsiderate but I find everyone I've know who smokes doesn't care about people who don't smoke. They never ask if I mind them smoking, but just light up. Maybe that makes me inconsiderate of them. Either way I think it is much more considerate if someone doesn't want to breathe toxins the other person should respect that.

Don't get me wrong, I am by no means saying a person smokes is a bad person.

Its a tiny cotton / fibroid wrapped in orange paper... on the road it usually gets crushed to tiny pieces or goes completely unnoticed.

I think this article is proof-positive that it doesn't go unnoticed. But let us reflect on that a bit. Imagine you have a large yard. Is it OK for me to throw my dog's waste into the back corner because it is relatively small and usually goes unnoticed? Public spaces belong to the public as a whole, so using them as your personal ashtray is simply unacceptable. Period. Smoking is a choice, a poor one, but one I believe I have no right to stop you from. All choices, however have consequences. Responsible disposal of your butts, no matter at what personal inconvenience is one consequence you accept by choosing to smoke.

@ merrydeath - no, I pay about 3.40 here in GA (about 2 with coupons), but when I was in DC it was like 4.90... its expensive...

@Christopher Bowers - public domain and civil liberties man, I don't feel I need to ask you if you mind if I smoke in a public outdoor area.. and while you feel someone should, there arr those who don't. As a gesture of courtesy, sure but as necessity, no. I see your point though.

@Adipic Acid

I think this article is proof-positive that it doesn't go unnoticed.

A handful of people isn't notice. I bet if you asked someone coming home from work if they noticed any cigarette butts on the highway they'd tell you no. Thus my point. However, if you drive around and can pick out tiny orange butts... you aren't concentrating on driving. I notice butts on street corners and so on, but not while driving. Half the time I can't tell you if the girl in the car next to me is attractive because I'm driving, and no... I don't answer my cell phone when I'm driving - that's a huge pet peeve of mine.

But let us reflect on that a bit. Imagine you have a large yard. Is it OK for me to throw my dog's waste into the back corner because it is relatively small and usually goes unnoticed? Public spaces belong to the public as a whole, so using them as your personal ashtray is simply unacceptable. Period.

I'm at a loss here. I'm looking for a connection between private property and fecal matter and public common areas. It is just bad taste and pretty rude to put dog poop in my yard simply because you have the opinion I won't notice. Then to turn around and talk about public commons in the same light as a private area. They are opposites and dog poop and ashtrays aren't even close to the same thing (unless you have this obscure connection with the word 'butts').

Smoking is a choice, a poor one, but one I believe I have no right to stop you from. All choices, however have consequences. Responsible disposal of your butts, no matter at what personal inconvenience is one consequence you accept by choosing to smoke

Thank you for summarizing the paragraph of my original comment where I siad pretty much the same thing.

Though I'll pick at the one word sentence here "PERIOD". There is no definite absolution to its nonacceptance. If it being done then someone finds it acceptable therefore "PERIOD" isn't applicable. Furhtermore if it was "simply unacceptable" there would be no debate as it would be simple.

Thanks for the comment though, it made me try and think of a valid connection between dog poop and ashtrays.

The last beach I went to was in the Bahamas and I didn't see a cig butt at all. I just came in from out side and there are no cig butts on my street, and I had just came from Wal-Mart... where I did see THREE.. but I looked for them, by the ash cans...

Since the conversation thu far was about driving and seeing them:

Its a tiny cotton / fibroid wrapped in orange paper... on the road it usually gets crushed to tiny pieces or goes completely unnoticed.

I can look on my back porch and see butss.. in a can that I keep them in, so you're right, I didn't have to drive to see them.

You sort of stated that all across America all stores ahve these token butts that sit there, and without them in place - its just not a store.

I'm sorry to hear that your living area is littered up so much. Are you in a city? I live in Middle GA suburbia right now, and have lived in and around Washington DC so I do know how trashy a city can be in parts... again... sorry to hear it.

I work in DC and watch the building maintenance people hose the butts into the storm sewers every morning, where many end up in the Potomac and eventually the Chesapeake. If you didn't see them here, then you weren't up early enough or you've never seen the storm sewers cleaned.

I own part of the public space, but that does not give me the right to discard beer cans on the ground. Pick up your trash and stick it in your pocket or your car until you get to a receptacle. The nation's highways are not your personal ashtray any more than they are my personal trash can.

By the way, it is precisely this "It's no big deal" mentality that drives people to support public smoking bans. I actually oppose them*, as bars and restaurants are private property, but smokers' sense of entitlement over things like public littering makes it hard for even sympathetic non-smokers like myself to defend smokers' legitimate rights. A scofflaw gets little sympathy.

*I will admit that I am giving this policy further reflection due to the recent Surgeon General's report on secondhand smoke. I might be moving toward supporting only smoking in private co-ops where there are no employees, only members.

If you work in DC and see the butts being hosed into sewage drains, why don't you take the fight to them as well... those workers are just as guilty as some are in tossing them, and in a way yes its their fault it goes to the bay but not all of it. Credit where credit is due.

If you've read what I originally said - I agree with you, but at the same time... there are bigger and better things for me to worry about than your disliking of a little orange piece of trash. While I also agree that the general attitude among a large group is a major thing... why don't you also apply that to... driving to work - where pollutants are ejected into the air as well. It may not be as much, but I doubt you care enough to get annoyed at it, dare I say to the point where you ride a bike or carpool to cut back on emissions. What do I worry about that is so important the butts aren't in the forefront of my mind? Feeding, housing, and medicating my family. And seriously if you are upset that the Potomac and Bay are filthy - butts are the LEAST of that cause, but working in DC you should know that already as the Bay quality is a huge issue there and they have running jokes about what happens when you swim in the Potomac River...and its almost that way with a few creeks up there too. All largely due to... not butts.

It is a valid argument and an extremely reasonable request that smokers use afforded places to dispose of their cig butts. The action to ban public smoking is not as valid or reasonable and that branch of this topic has already been touched on by the author in a previous article. You can see what I had to say about that in it.

I completely agree with that. You own that sidewalk just as much as I do (if I were in the same state as you - but you get the idea)..and as such we should all keep it clean, what disappoints me most about it is that it shows a total lack of pride in oneself.

Here's a little anecdote for ya...

At work, sometimes I have to correct my employees language in public. I do outside work - landscaping and such. Sometimes the guys can get caught up in a conversation and forget where they are and that sometimes children can be within earshot. So I simply ask them "Do you behave this way at your moms house?" If they say yes then the reply is "This isnt your mothers house". If they say no then the reply is "Then don't do it here either".

To anextent the saem rules apply on this particular topic.

If we cannot bring ourselves to perform the simple act of not throwing our own toxic garbage on the ground, how do we have any hope of tackling the truly larger pollution problems? Responsibility begins at home. As I said, your "my offensive behaviour is no big deal" mentality is driving many people in the direction of banning smoking, period. If you are going to engage in a dirty habit, try to minimize the amount of sludge you get on people who choose not to partake. A little consideration may be rewarded in kind.

Nothing wrong with people picking up the butts...that's part of the idea of a deposit. Or did you mean "grey market" because of the ashes?

Sounds like you're in favor of a complete ban on cigarettes.

That is a dirty but brilliant idea!

I agree with you about the public ashtrays and the shopping carts.

However, consider this my own Public Service Announcement

Public Ashtrays are not garbage cans; they are ashtrays. It is a fire hazard to put garbage in a container specifically designed for something that is burning.

--your friendly neighborhood smoker--